HDxLiberation: A Human Design Podcast

Episode 12: Evaluating Our Relationship with Discomfort in a Not-Self World

• Courtney Napier, Andrea Ward Berg • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode, hosts Andrea and Courtney explore the concept of energetic dysfunction in the context of white supremacist delusion. They discuss the imbalance of comfort in white bodies and the overfunctioning in discomfort experienced by black and brown bodies. They highlight the harmful effects of these imbalances and emphasize the importance of recognizing and addressing them in order to create a more equitable and liberated society.

Key Takeaways:

  • White comfort and black discomfort are two interconnected aspects of energetic dysfunction in a white supremacist system.
  • The inability to embrace discomfort and the overfunctioning in discomfort perpetuate the cycle of dehumanization.
  • Recognizing and challenging white comfort and embracing discomfort are essential for dismantling white supremacist delusion and creating a more just and equitable society.

Notable Quotes:

  • "When white people are so hyper fixated on their own comfort, they dehumanize themselves and reinforce the overfunctioning and discomfort of black and brown bodies." - Andrea
  • "Black and brown bodies need to feel safe and comfortable in order to disrupt the cycle of overfunctioning in discomfort and reclaim their humanity." - Courtney

Resources:

Contact and Support:

For more insights and to join the conversation, follow the HDxLiberation podcast on social media at @hdxliberation on Instagram, subscribe to their YouTube channel, and join the Liberation Lab on Substack for exclusive content and community benefits.

Andrea & Courtney Intro:

Hi, I'm Andrea. Hey y'all, this is Courtney and welcome to the Human Design and Liberation podcast. This is a space where we explore how human design and liberation theology intersect with the past, present, and future. With the intent of sharing the beauty and pain of the human experience to encourage you in your liberation journey.

Andrea:

Hi,

Courtney:

Mmm. Hi. We got a good one today. Holy cow.

Andrea:

we do. My gosh, I'm so so excited.

Courtney:

Me too. Me too. Uh, first of all, how are you? I don't even think I asked you earlier how you are. think we just jumped right in.

Andrea:

We did. We did. I'm good. Um, so we're recording this on Friday, April 26th. And, um, like the cosmic energy is pretty fuggly

video1887749153:

buggly right Mmm.

Courtney:

Fuggly

video1887749153:

is such a great word for it.

Courtney:

It it is so much. It's so much. Mercury is Mercury ing.

Andrea:

Wow. It is just extra. So for those of that love the cosmic tea, Mercury just went direct yesterday, but like basically when Mercury makes a transition, like when it turns retrograde or when it turns direct, it kind of just stops. it just stops and like, isn't moving and naturally Mercury is like really fast. so, yeah, sometimes these moments and part of it is that. There's some extra layers as to why this is particularly nasty. and it's related to the other thing that's happening, which is Mars and Neptune are conjoining and like Neptune is big and move And so this has been, we've been feeling this energy most of the week. So yeah, it's just like yeah, it's thick and it's a slug right now. It's sludgy. It's, it's such a wild way to start the year. I keep saying this. I've, I've, I'm sure you've heard it from episode to episode, but we are really, um, learning a very deep lesson in slowness this year. Big time. Yeah.

Courtney:

because if you've been able to get any big thing off the ground, Over the last four months, you are exhausted right now,

Andrea:

Yeah, including this podcast,

Courtney:

Including your hosts, Andrea and Courtney. Wow.

Andrea:

But it's worth it. That's what I will say. Like it has been a slog and like we were going over our notes before we jumped onto record and like the words were just like, So if we, um, stumble,

Courtney:

take your time. No rush.

Andrea:

Have the grace. Anyway but we're here. We did it.

Courtney:

we're here. We did it. And for a good reason, because we have really great stuff. So if you have, I would encourage you, if you haven't listened to the last episode about outer authority, I would definitely listen to that because it's where what we're talking about is in the same vein. Um, and I'd also, if you are new to Human Design, I highly encourage you to check out Andrew's incredible course"Better Human", um, to kind of get yourself caught up because the purpose of this podcast is not necessarily like Human Design 101 or astrology 101 or really liberation studies 101. We are doing a very deep, slow work of showing how these modalities, um, and others, are integrated for our benefit for the benefit of the collective toward a liberated new world reality. So, um, just want to. Give that little intro. Thank you for listening. Of course. We love that you're here Um, we cannot believe this. will, This is will be episode 12. Um, we didn't a minute to like celebrate episode 10!

Andrea:

We haven't celebrated anything! We've. just been

Courtney:

350 downloads all the listeners, like you guys are just like we feel so Yeah massively seen Um, I have chills. I'm feeling wobbly, like massively seen and filled with such hope that this, what the universe has been preparing us for, for a really long time

Andrea:

Yeah,

Courtney:

and bringing us two together to Share what we're sharing right now is already reaching people already reaching the right people. The people we're just destined to reach and build community with, um, and continue to learn from, um, and who are finding wisdom in what we're saying. And, um, it's just really, really, really, really cool. Very, very cool.

Andrea:

yeah. We're so grateful you're here. And please do check out the Patron community.

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

We are in the process of just. visioning what we can do together, how we can dream into these new ways of being and, um, yeah, get to know you. So yeah, look in the show notes for the link to that and come say hi. Um, So today we, this, the idea for this episode actually came from one of our many conversations because we talk pretty much every day. Um, um, you're just getting a little window into how we life. So, um, just laying that out there. Um, so we were having this conversation about, um, energetic dysfunction.

Courtney:

Mm

Andrea:

and I want to, like, kind of, um, have you just give your view of what that means,

Courtney:

Yeah. Yeah. So I, um, before I even found Human Design, I was very, very intrigued by race, racism. Um, I grew up in My family is black. Obviously I'm black. Um, but in predominantly white spaces. And so feeling the difference experiencing on a lot of different levels, the difference in the way we move through the world as black people and white people, very specifically brown people, Asian folks, um, all other, um, identities. Around seeing yes, a global majority and seeing the different ways we just moved of different ways. We live approach the world approach relationships, work, family, um, love all of these different things and right? It's it's just different and it's not better or worse. It's it. But I could never stop noticing the differences. And so as I as I You know, matured, and I was able to start finding, um, in my mid twenties, um, Learning more about my history as a Black woman, um, learning more about the history of the ways that our groups and races have intersect, the history of race, all of this stuff, right? Just very, very, very intrigued by all of it. Um, and racism, of course, on the other side of this. Well, racism came first, and then race, as Tanahasi Coates has shown us. Um, And so, but really, but also being a very deeply spiritual person, um, having a very, being an empath, having, um, as a pure generator and enveloping aura that is in a, uh, a completely open solar plexus experiences things on an emotional level and an amplified way. I had My spirituality and being an empath always complicated the race conversation for me.

Andrea:

Mm.

Courtney:

Um, there were just so many ways of absolutism. Um, objectification.

Andrea:

Ooh, yeah.

Courtney:

um, would come into this conversation tokenism would come into this conversation in ways that I was just like, Oh, maybe not. Oh, that feels constricting and contrived, you know, it does. It feels inhuman the way we're discussing this. but It's too clinical. It's too clean. It's too distant, you know, from something that literally colors, for lack of a better word, Everything about our lives, all the layers, all the way deep. Um, and so we were talking yesterday and what came to me as Andrew and I were talking is the energetic dysfunction inside of. White supremacist delusion. Like we understand the economic dysfunction. We understand the physical ramifications of these things on our health, on our bodies, on our mental health. Um, we even understand to an extent the spiritual dysfunction of, of this stuff in a limited way. But I think what's missing because our spirituality is so informed by. Religion and specifically Christianity in the States that what we're missing, I think, is the energetic component to white supremacist delusion. And what we discussed and we kind of uncovered is that there is a white comfort or comfort as a, as a necessary Experience and sensation for all of us. It helps us understand, feel like we understand where we are, who we are, um, and what's happening around us, right? Um, this sense of comfort is not, is, is completely imbalanced inside white supremacist delusion. Um, it feels the way that it, uh, shows up in the world as white bodied people are feel as if it is their right to live a life of comfort. To be, that comfort is their lifestyle, that painlessness and moving through the world with ease is the way that their life should be all the time. Um, and on the other side of that, because black and brown Body people, bodies of culture, as Res Momenicum says, have had to live inside of that distortion, we have for our survival and our sanity a lot of times, or for a long time anyway, have oriented ourselves to live in a constant state of discomfort. That discomfort is a way of life.

Andrea:

It's really like overfunctioning. Yeah, overfunctioning in discomfort.

Courtney:

And overfunctioning in discomfort, and normalizing going, you know, the capitalist, um, speed of things, grinding, hustling, under, and in. Discomfort and that energetic imbalance is having deleterious ramifications on all of us.

Andrea:

All of us. Yeah.

Courtney:

And that is an inescapable reality. Well, it's not an inescapable reality, obviously, because people are attempting to escape this. the knowledge of this reality all the time, but it is a, I believe an objective truth that this is occurring. And we feel like it's a really important aspect of this conversation around, um, the struggle for liberation and, And the dismantling of these outer authority, white supremacist delusion systems to recognize the energetic element of what's happening.

Andrea:

Yeah. So that we can reimagine what systems we need when we're operating in true self. Right? It's like, like if we can't recognize Transcribed Where these problems come from where the root is, then we're just going to make the same when we create the new system. Right. And you see this all the time, like you you think you're signing up for something new and then you see the underpinnings and you're like, wait a minute, this is not new. This is, this is the same old, same old.

Courtney:

Yes. Absolutely. So I'd love for you to, um, Oh, I don't know where you're going. You go where you know, I was going to say, so we're really,

Andrea:

I was just going to summarize. So we're really talking=about like, um, two, two aspects that almost like feed into each other to keep the system locked, right? One of those is, um, what Tema Okun is kind of named as white comfort being a core tenant or a core characteristic of supremacy delusion, right? And then the, um, over functioning in discomfort of black and brown bodies. And so what happens is that both are in that self, right?

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

Both are being dehumanized in the process. Um, and we'll get into what that even means. Um, but especially because when white bodied people experience discomfort, violence follows.

Courtney:

Mm hmm.

Andrea:

It keeps the cycle locked, right? It keeps, it keeps the cycle locked. It keeps black and brown bodies in that over functioning to not be harmed and they end up getting harmed anyway. Um, because there is no, it's Not-Self. So there is no, there is no satisfying it. It's, there is no like getting on the other side of it. Right.

Courtney:

Wow, Yes.

Andrea:

and so I think, um, when we talk about Energetic dysfunction. This, this truly is like a lethal dysfunction. This is not just like, Oh, like if it doesn't feel good, it's like, no, like

Courtney:

Right.

Andrea:

Everybody's dying from this. And I, you know, I think I feel very, um, I feel really passionate about this today in this moment in time. Um, because kids, teenagers around the country are getting beaten up and arrested for expressing their concern, their desire for black and brown bodies in Palestine to not be killed. And, um, their desire to hold the educational institutions that they are a part of

Courtney:

hmm.

Andrea:

for

Courtney:

Their own community.

Andrea:

Yeah, hold their own community accountable for the ways that they are, uh, enabling the violence. And so, um, we're we're looking at a really, I mean, you know, we live in 2024. So any given day, there are many examples to choose from. Um, but yesterday the students at Emory who had set up a peaceful protest in the quad, very similar to what's been set up at Yale and Harvard and, you know, many, um, Universities across the country, Columbia, U. T. Um, they were met within hours. Within two hours, they were met with Georgia State troopers, tear gas, uh, rubber bullets, Um, excessive violence tasers, right? I mean, so we the Not-Self does not want to be disrupted. The Not-Self going to use every tool in its toolbox to incite fear and to put us into Not-Self. And so I think I feel really passionately about understanding these layers because the deeper you understand what's happening, the harder it is to unsee what you're seeing, and the more strength you have to be able to stand up against what you're seeing.

Courtney:

Yes. Oh, that's so true. I mean, that's something about the Not-Self that is really, really powerful. Um, we've been talking about the Not-Self just a little bit. And I love Andrea for you to just talk a little bit more kind of connecting, um, the usefulness of the Not-Self, but also the"un-usefulness" of the Not-Self, the way that the Not-Self interrupts us from experiencing the life that we're here to live, really.

Andrea:

Yeah. Yeah. So the Not-Self in Human Design is the way that you feel. When you're not living your design,

Courtney:

Mm hmm.

Andrea:

just like as simple as possible. Um, because we are all designed uniquely. It has many different flavors, like more flavors than Baskin Robbin's. Okay. got a lot of flavors. So, um, way to kind of, um, think about this, if you are new to Human Design, it's always going to come back to the Not-Self of your type, right? So, um, there's Not-Self for centers. Um, there's Not-Self for type. Um, there's Not-Self for profile, like every aspect of Human Design has the Not-Self. Um,

Courtney:

yeah.

Andrea:

And so that can be kind of confusing or, um, hard to wade through. So I always recommend anybody who's new to Human Design, just always go back to your type, right? Like, so for example, the Not-Self of the solar plexus, and this can be true for someone with a defined solar plexus or undefined, it's just the way you will feel it will be different. But the Not-Self is, um, avoiding the truth. Okay.

Courtney:

Um,

Andrea:

Is, um, avoiding confrontation. It's avoiding an emotional experience that you have some fear around. Right. Um, so that's one example. For me as a projector, I will feel bitterness towards that. So I've used this example before, but, um, when we were moving from San Diego to Atlanta. I felt bitterness about the move because. You know, things didn't work out the way that we had hoped they would, um, for a myriad of reasons. And when I went to go have communication with people about the fact that we were moving with our friends, et cetera, um, I was feeling bitter about it. And so one of the layers I had to get to was where's this bitterness coming from? And one of the layers was that I didn't want to feel their emotions. because it was too late, right? So that's just a little bit of like a nuance of how the Not-Self can show up. Um, and so as it relates to these, this discussion that we're having around energetic dysfunction, um, specifically, Um, people who are upholding whiteness and I say it that way because whiteness, and I think we've talked about this at least in the liberation episode, but, um, whiteness is not associated with the color of your skin necessarily. It is dependent. It is dependent on skin color, but it is not associated with it. What do I mean by that? Anybody can absorb it. Everybody is absorbing it. Like everybody's absorbing this kind of way of, um, being in the world. And, um, we're going to put a low note, um, in the show notes to this work around white supremacy culture. And there's a website that has a ton of resources around, like, what are the aspects of it? So you can just start to, like, improve your, um, Awareness of what is whiteness versus, um, what it means to have a white body or what it means to have a black or brown body, right?

Courtney:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Um, so that will, that will be in a show notes, but the main one we're talking about, um, here is this characteristic of supremacy delusion that is based on white comfort and this, um, you know, this really dates back to, um, the feudal system and Western Europe. And all of the infighting that was happening and this belief of those with power, In that system that that they should always be comfortable.

Courtney:

Yeah. Right.

Andrea:

Um, and so that got projected onto those with power in that system. Again, everybody in that system was white, but not everybody was comfortable. It was really a class. It was a class issue first. Right?

Courtney:

Yes. And a heredity issue. because a lot of the, the power was also often pat often passed down, um, through like a bloodline through your family tree.

Andrea:

Right. Right. Yeah. so it was a class hereditary hierarchical system.

Courtney:

Mm hmm.

Andrea:

And when the colonization bug started to hit that region,

Courtney:

Mm um,

Andrea:

those with less power, because it was always people with less power who were going to these uncomfortable places, obviously, right? So like Columbus had way less power than the, you know, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella that he was going exploring for, right? He was, he was doing it for them so they could stay comfortable. So you can see where, like, this pattern of comfort started. So then he, you know, goes to uncomfortable places and wants to be comfortable. And so starts to use violence in order to have that comfort. Because that is what was modeled by these people in in europe by people with power. It was like, I keep my comfort by physically harming anybody who disrupts my comfort. I think

Courtney:

yeah. Because they are. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. That was super helpful. You know, they are, you know, the supremacist delusion of it all is there. It is their birthright. They as. a superior being to continue holding the comfort that was held by those who came before them, right? It's like, well, my daddy was,

Andrea:

with or whatever.

Courtney:

yeah, exactly. like my daddy or my uncle or my cousin was comfortable and I'm with them. And so any, you know, and this is a God ordained thing too, because obviously when you think about, Uh, royalty and kingdoms and so forth, you have this in, in, you know, this introduction of like God ordained. This is a heavenly kind of like dispensation, um, which you see a clear line between that and the United States becoming the quote unquote"City On A Hill", the,

Andrea:

and is,

Courtney:

American exceptionalism, all of that.

Andrea:

I mean, it's totally linked to manifest destiny, right?

Courtney:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Andrea:

idea that, you know, anybody from. The, you know,"Christian lineage" can go and take whatever they want. Like, no, that's not how it works. Um, so what I kind of, so anyway, we're going to link to Tema Okun's work, cause I think that will be really helpful. Um, and just like getting back to. um, the Not-Self and how this all like weaves together is number one, when you are over focused on your comfort, then you are actually like disillusioned about being human, right? Because being human comes with challenges. Being human comes with, um, struggles. It comes with, like, we don't, we actually grow through hardship. And so, um, one of the teachers that I love for this type of concept, Is adrienne marie brown, because she talks about like, let's see what happens in nature, right? So you think about like a seed having to grow a sprout, like it's, it's having to push into the ground. It's, it's not, you know, you need that resistance in order to grow. And even like, um, When you're growing a human inside of you, which we have both done, right? Like our bodies are pushing up against that human. They need something to push up against in order to grow. And I think those are really helpful metaphors with understanding that that is a part of being human. And so when white people are so hyper fixated on their own comfort. And, uh, not recognizing the wisdom and the value of struggle. Um, they dehumanize themselves.

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

And, and you mentioned this, I think it was a great example of like, um, assumed inferiority, like I'm not that strong. Like black people are so strong. Black women are so strong. Um, almost, um, almost like willfully humiliating themselves, ourselves, to not recognize the ways that we're missing our own humanity and those assumptions.

Courtney:

Oh yeah. 100%. I mean, anybody who's familiar with, um. There's a book called Medical Apartheid, and it talks about, one of the things it talks about is the pain threshold, the very racist ideas around pain threshold. I mean, the study of eugenics is essentially trying to prove the ways that one race is superior over another in a myriad of ways. And just the idea of that in and of itself is delusion because We know from a genetic perspective that there is more genetic similarities possibly between me and Andrea than there could be between me and like, My best friend, Samantha, who's black, like there's a, there is, you know, we, we understand this about race now. And yet, um, this is, it still has a hold

Andrea:

Hmm.

Courtney:

on our, you know, this conversation still has a hold on our, on our present. And the ways we are both suffering under this diluted way of seeing humanity.

Andrea:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so white bodied people are dehumanizing themselves and not showing up for

Courtney:

Mm hmm.

Andrea:

their agency. And as a result, it's reinforcing the over functioning and Not-Self or black and brown bodied people who are just trying to survive in the system. Right.

Courtney:

Right.

Andrea:

And so, um, When we were having this conversation yesterday, one of the things that was really up for me is just the power with the power differential. Right. Um, there is this possibility to break cycles and make room for humanity for those of us with white bodies who say, I see my role in this, and I'm going to stop. And how do we do that? Right? Like we do that by number one, rehumanizing ourselves and recognizing that we need to be able to be more comfortable in discomfort and we need to interrogate those things that make us uncomfortable. So I think this, you know, um,"Disturbance of the peace," I'm using air quotes for those listening. Um, at Emory is a great example because Emory is a very white university, right? And so the amount of force that is being used against these students is obviously disproportional. And, um, very representative of what white people do when they're uncomfortable. The president of Emory is white. What the board of directors at Emory, I would be willing to put money is more than half white. And so the way that they're responding to this discomfort of protest, again, discomfort in air quotes, um, happening on their campus is disproportionately violent.

Courtney:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And so when we look at like, okay, what does that mean to be more, to have more capacity for discomfort? It means when you see something like that happening, like even if it's in your own front yard, like, don't call the people who propagate these systems, like, don't call the police. Now, if there's real harm, like you, you need some support, right? Like, if there's real harm happening, we don't have a lot of options right now. In Atlanta, we do have, um, an alternative. Um, Group to call that is more focused on, um, social services and mental health and, you know, services that aPD is not qualified to give and they get called for everything. Um, but also recognizing that these, um, people that we think keep us safe are actually really keeping the systems of violence in place.

Courtney:

Yes, yes. And I really like that you said that there are alternatives, because I think one of, you know, something that came to mind is just informing yourself, especially as a white bodied person, about the alternatives that are in your area. And if there aren't any, using your power of, you know, like, um, um, your, your city council, your town council, your county commissioners all the way up are invested in keeping you comfortable as a white bodied person. So that means if you are uncomfortable with the fact that there aren't any other options in your community to call outside of the police, say something.

Andrea:

yeah, yeah. So in Atlanta, it's called PAD, Policing Alternative and Diversion Initiative. Um, and it's, uh, 3 1 1 for anybody in Atlanta that's listening. Um, and I highly recommend researching in your area to see alternatives you have. Um, this has been a big initiative since George Floyd's death. Um, and You know, many others who have died from police brutality. Um, the numbers are, you know, going up exponentially every year. Um, and it's disproportionately black and brown. The deaths are disproportionately black and brown. Um, so when we think about, um, white bodied people getting more comfortable with discomfort and having this opportunity with the power differential to disrupt the cycle. Then that really kind of moves the energy over to what you're talking about, which is black and brown people need to feel more comfortable.

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

They need to feel safe, feeling more comfortable

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

This, I love like, so when we started the conversation talking about like the roots, right, the colonizer roots of where all this came from, what always comes up for me is the fact that that was happening pre 1781. So that was happening before we evolved as humans. Right. And so in 1781, that is when the spleen and the solar plexus split and the heart and the identity center split. And we went from being seven centered, which is You know, what the Vedic chakras teach, to being nine centered, which is a little bit more complex and more representative of, you know, the energetic movement that we experienced today. Um, and so this gets down to this, where is this energy getting stuck? And you mentioned something as we were prepping for this call about this feels really And so I'm curious if that resonates, especially as we're talking about like The, it's almost like the white discomfort is more of a, exploration of solar plexus dysfunction and

Courtney:

mm hmm.

Andrea:

black comfort is more of an exploration of splenic. health,

Courtney:

Yeah, i, uh, I totally agree with that. I think, um, oh, this feels, this feels uncomfortable to even talk about because it is so it's, um, what we're dealing with is a reconnection to our, our, our oldest center, which I think feels very When I think about what Black people, people of culture, how, what slavery meant, what the institution of slavery was built on, um, and I'm going to be very, very transparent here. This is something that Andrea has to remind me of on a regular basis. Um, as I'm moving through my own healing journey. Um, and there's, there's a conversation I had recently with someone that I love very much where they essentially like, I don't want to think about the past. I only want to think about the future. I only want to, because when I think about the past, it's, it becomes all I can think about. Um, the wounding that we have experienced and the conditioning that we've experienced to our splenic center is black and brown bodies in this country was very intense and very, very, uh, pointed and intentional. The, the, yeah.

Andrea:

And I would, would the only thing I would say is not just in this country, like really

Courtney:

Oh, of course, yes. absolutely the legacy of

Andrea:

every,

Courtney:

slavery we're talking about.

Andrea:

was. Yeah.

Courtney:

because A lot of places. Yeah. Yes. And the motherland as well, in African countries as well. They still, I mean, I'm having, I got chills all over. The wound is big. The wound, Yeah. um, the, the reality of colonization and the wound of, of human trafficking, the wound slavery, the wound of, um, literally surgically removing one's knowledge of their heritage

Andrea:

yeah, yeah,

Courtney:

out of there, like, ripping away language, music, religion, spiritual practices.

Andrea:

Yeah,

Courtney:

spiritual practices, um, and spiritual leadership, um, absolutely. And the story holder is the griots of the community being targeted, um, We, the Splenic center, um, is the oldest, is our oldest, uh, awareness center. And so when I think about the, the hit that that has taken,

Andrea:

The conditioning. Yeah.

Courtney:

conditioning that is taken over the centuries, um, the, that is where a lot of energy gets stuck for us. Just point it it gets stuck. Um, it is, it is, And the root center, I would venture to say as well, um,

Andrea:

yeah, for sure. I I was thinking about that as we're kind of Summarizing, summarizing, like, um, i, definitely, um, I definitely see where the conditioning impacts both the spleen and the solar plexus today, the conditioning from, you know, pre 1781. So the conditioning from the 15th and 16th century, um, it impacts both today. Um, especially, you know, when we think about like, we're here to commune and that's, that's not available when these. systems of supremacy are dominating our day to day experience, right? Um, you can't commune if you're not human. You can't commune if you're dehumanized and and that's what's, that's what these systems are um, um and and as ignorant participants Right. that's what we end up doing is

Courtney:

yeah,

Andrea:

giving these systems our outer authority Disproportionately giving these systems Um, domain over what we think, what we believe, how we experience life around us.

Courtney:

yes. So there's two very specific places, thank you for saying that, Cause there's two very specific places I feel like black and brown bodies struggle most, um, which results in us over functioning discomfort. One is the inability to, the, the, not inability, but the struggle of understanding enough-ness. Um,

Andrea:

Mm.

Courtney:

the other is the, oh, the, this overriding sense of threat, like a generic buzz of threat that we experience.

Andrea:

Um,

Courtney:

I think those two and, and, and which can oftentimes manifest in black and brown people going along to get along or reaching for the master's tools as. As Audre Lorde said, reaching for the master's tools to dismantle them, the master's house. And I see this in, in many like intersecting identities, not just black and brown bodies, I see this as a, it's something that affects everyone. But, but I'm speaking to these two. This is what I'm getting as this is what is coming through me right now are these two areas. And I'm speaking from it personally because for one understanding that I've put enough work in, understanding that I've given enough of myself to the situation, understanding that I've experienced enough of a situation, um, that my body is experiencing enough discomfort for me to seek help, seek support, um, that is for to advocate, to speak up, which also is like the spleen kind of connected to the solar plexus, right? Like you know, understand and the route to understanding that you're experiencing this level of pain that you're experiencing is not okay. No matter what anybody says about it.

Andrea:

Right.

Courtney:

It doesn't matter.

Andrea:

really about your authority, like, know, being able to hear your authority in that moment of like, I understand you're saying I have to put up with this, but I'm not going to put up with this, but I'm not.

Courtney:

And then again, not going along to get along this because the, because the threat, the buzz of the threat is, first of all, very real. But the other real thing is, None of us are safe only listening to outer authority, you know what I mean? That's why we have an inner authority. That's why we have a strategy and an authority for us that we've been given, um, that we've been equipped with by our creator is because we are navigating through a lot of different ideas about the world. A lot of different experiences and ways of being and so to be dependent on an outside authority's concept of this in this particular context is white supremacist delusion. None of us are safe. That's what we're trying to say. And so going on to get along respectability. Um, spiritual bypassing, which is something that is all too prevalent in the black community. Um, uh, just any sort of attempting to diminish any identities or ways of being that, that would"give someone the opportunity to harm you." That is a phrasing that is very, very common in our spaces. Don't give them a chance to, to, See you as less than who you are.

Andrea:

Or see you as, see you as less than superhuman,

Courtney:

superhuman. And that's essentially what we are saying which is also like,

Andrea:

which is the humanizing. don't get to be human,

Courtney:

Working twice as hard. You know, Ta-Nehisi Coates. I can't remember the now, but he has such a great quote around this idea of working twice as hard. Um, and just the refusal and, um, Speaking of refusal, Tricia Hersey's work around rest is radical because it's moving from a place of refusal. Um, we're gonna, I wanna like pause because we're gonna get to some places, like some practical ways of, Kind of coming against this conditioning, um, around energetic dysfunction, um, and coming back into energetic balance. Um, but I know for, for black and brown folks that moving like rest and slowing down are ways to individually call back comfort into life to create that space to reconnect with your own energy, your own strategy and authority slowing down, waiting. We are going to be doing a whole episode about waiting. Um, how everybody to wait really, really soon. Um, but this idea of waiting to Attune to your energy, to your strategy and authority. Um, understanding that, that Waiting is going to feel uncomfortable because of these pressures because of the pressure to go on to get along and because of the pressure of not understanding enough, um, not, not understanding it, but the pressure around your enoughness and, um, experience what you experience and whether or not. You are doing enough, feeling enough, being enough, all of those things, um, calling, using your right of refusal in the face of requests for your energy, in the face of challenges, even in the face of those really sweet white folks who were just looking for more knowledge, more this, more something from you, to be able to slow down and say, let me think about that. Let, you know, give me a, I'd like a couple of days to consider this question or turning it around and asking them what do they think, what, you know, what brought them to even asking you, turning things around, um, as, an ask, answering a question with a question, giving yourself time,

Andrea:

um, getting curious.

Courtney:

getting curious. These are the things that is, are small yet. Very potent ways of rebalancing this comfort-discomfort, energy, dysfunction that we experience day to day.

Andrea:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that the big misnomer or misunderstanding, um, perhaps on both for everyone is that white people, white bodied people are benefiting from this right?

Courtney:

Yes.

Andrea:

Um, and I, I think that this idea is part of what. has the system stick, right? But that lack of capacity for discomfort is harming and killing white people. It's just doing it differently, right? Like, um, we were talking yesterday about, you know, more white men die from suicide than every other segment combined.

Courtney:

Mm hmm.

Andrea:

The number of people who die, who die from suicide. Especially when you look at gun violence, it's half of the number of people who die from gun violence.

Courtney:

Mm.

Andrea:

So when you kind of put those two together, right, um, there is, there is a serious issue going on. Um, gender based violence, over medication, addiction and overdose, those are disproportionately white deaths happening. Um, also in the LGBTQ community and, you know, some of the other, you know, Um, violence that is happening. It's, it's this not being able to be with discomfort is alienating so many people in the community that just, it's, it's this white exceptionalism of like, I'm the exception. rather than recognizing that, no, this, these are actual epidemics that are happening in, within supremacy delusion. And it just looks different, right? It's you're not getting beaten by the police, but you're beating yourself. And

Courtney:

yeah,

Andrea:

either way, you're going to die

Courtney:

Or the police is your husband and they're coming home and beating you after their shift.

Andrea:

Totally. totally.

Courtney:

How is that any different? You know what I mean? Like, think that's the thing. It's like, yes, white bodied people benefit from white supremacy. How? And is it the way you want to be benefiting? Are you, you know what I mean? Are those benefits resulting in a life that you actually want to be living? I think that's the

Andrea:

Are those benefits resulting in you being a human? Cause Because they're not.

Courtney:

they are absolutely not. It's all, it's all fiction,

Andrea:

Yeah, it's fiction. It's fake news. As liz likes to say,

Courtney:

it it is.

Andrea:

that's fake news because being human, you know, requires discomfort. Um, and so whether it's the discomfort of standing up for yourself or it's the discomfort of saying, I'm going through this economic issue, this is not some moral failing of mine, right? These are the types of discomforts that require us to grow out of the system into something that is much more generative. Um, and the other thing that kind of came up as we were talking about this is because the spectrum is so skewed, And that's often why white moderates or white progressives get so stuck. And as we were kind of talking about that, um, the quote from MLK was really in my mind. So I'm going to read this. this is from a letter from a Birmingham jail.

Courtney:

Um, this is, this is time appropriate language that we're using. So just so you know, like, no, we don't use the word Negro right now, today in the, world. This is, but these are the words of MLK. We're going to honor the words he used in the time that he used them. So just that

Andrea:

Yes, We, we will, we will keep his work intact. Um, So he says that"the Negroes great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the white citizens counselor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to order than to justice, who prefers a negative piece, which is the absence of tension to a positive piece, which is the presence of justice, who constantly says, I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with you with the methods of direct action, who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom, who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a more convenient season." And so after we've had this whole conversation about discomfort, you can see where that's what is driving. This behavior, and he's, he's directly addressing white people in the movement.

Courtney:

Mm

Andrea:

These were white people who said, I support your progress. I support you seeking freedom. Right. Um, and so their inability to be in the discomfort of what was required to get to freedom is what was holding them back from really being part of the solution. And I think we see that today. In a lot of ways, particularly this again, exceptionalism of like,"well, my family is just crazy. And so I'm not going to be around them.". Right. Or, um, I see, you know, this is one of the things that I've really had to interrogate within myself of feeling more comfortable. Around nonwhite groups than feeling comfortable around white groups. And building my capacity for discomfort because the opportunity to hear people talk or claim or believe the things that are dehumanizing about groups of people that I know are human. It's very uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable. But I had to increase my capacity there so that I can speak truth to power so that I can speak into those situations, because if I am avoiding discomfort, then I'm not going to be in those situations and I'm not going to have the capacity to have a difficult conversation about the ways that. Human beings are being dehumanized in that conversation. Right. Um,

Courtney:

Yes. Yes. all of that. Mm. That's so good.

Andrea:

it's really an opportunity getting back to like this power differential. If more white bodied people can build that capacity for discomfort, we have. A potential to really disrupt things in a very big way. Um, again, getting back to this Emory demonstration, like there are videos of white professors being arrested of white professors being violently treated by these police, right?

Courtney:

Yeah.

Andrea:

The response to that is going to get attention. It's absolutely going to start to disrupt some of the narratives. Now, is it a good thing that it takes their participation to be able to disrupt it? No, I hate that. But at the same

Courtney:

hmm.

Andrea:

It's part of the power dynamics, right?

Courtney:

It is where we are. Yes. Yes.

Andrea:

and I have power view, that's my, you know, that's my, um, bottom left variable. So when I see this power dynamic getting disrupted in this way, that gives me hope that there's going to be some space, we're breaking open some space for a conversation around why this is rotten at the root.

Courtney:

Yes, yes to all of that. And I want to say to because we are getting into some really important nuance territory, especially around like white progressivism and, the type of support the struggle needs from white bodied people. I think another point of discomfort is, um, the myth of originality.

Andrea:

Yes.

Courtney:

And I think this gets to something that we were discussing before we came on, which is like the frustration that white folks and black folks alike have with. Folks like Tim Wise and Robin DiAngelo and white bodied people who are in the conversation around race. Um, so I'm going to speak for myself here, but I'm also a four six. So I feel like I'm speaking some, a larger truth, but I am going to preface that myself is that I, applaud and and I'm excited for any white bodied person coming in and who has done the work of understanding race, whiteness, white supremacist delusion, um, and is, inside this work of the struggle for liberation. I am all about them having platforms and I'm all about them having massive platforms. Okay. But there is one thing that is eroding their potency and eroding their relationship with the that they claim to be in support of and that is capping that these are original ideas

Andrea:

yeah.

Courtney:

and it is Again, it's like it's it's it's a small thing in size, but it's a massive thing in terms of influence and accountability. Um,

Andrea:

and that's something yes It also erodes credibility, right?

Courtney:

and credibility. Yes, 100%. These are not your ideas. Entirely. Yeah. Now we are ready to give you you white bodied folks who are listening and are in this work. Um, and I work with and, and talk with black advocates and activists every single day just about who are for you. I just want to understand how for you we are and how, much you bring to this struggle. You bring so much, and we see you, and we see your uniqueness, and we see your unique voice, and the, and the, how essential you are, and you are causing harm. By not naming the people in places that have created the foundation for your work,

Andrea:

Yeah. you are and It's really, it's not hard to do.

Courtney:

And it's not hard to do because originality is a myth. You don't understand. When black and brown people venerate ancestors, um, when we are saying the names of James Baldwin, Audre Lorde, Maya Angelo, Angela Davis, all these elders and ancestors, it's, it's our culture, but it's a culture of accountability. That's what it is. It's not just a cute thing that we do. It's not just, you know, it's not nostalgia.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Courtney:

is a practice of accountability to these people, these, these spiritual leaders. revolutionaries have gone before that before us and built the foundation that we are standing on now and working with now. Ebony Janice, her work as a fourth wave Black feminist is built on the shoulders of so many people. And she, we find joy in naming these people. And, the struggle with whiteness is this idea of originality, this idea of pioneering, this idea of being the first to do X, Y, and Z, and that originality gives you the right to commodify, gives you the right to grow,

Andrea:

own at

Courtney:

own, this idea of ownership, all of which are capitalism, all of which are colonialism.

Andrea:

Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

Courtney:

And you are dabbling in that yucky, yucky muck when you choose to to go around and try to claim originality over ideas that are not foundationally your own. Um, and it's just undermining your work so much. And we need your work. This is the dichotomy. We need your work, but we need you to represent that at work that work.

Andrea:

Um, honestly, absolutely.

Courtney:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I mean, I think that it's something that is so, um, it's, it's so, the word I'm looking for? Um, prolific in white spaces, Right. I mean, I just look back on my experience in corporate and how many times my ideas were pitched as my boss's ideas or

Courtney:

Oh

Andrea:

my boss's ideas, Right. Um, and it's, it's just, um, it's extortion.

Courtney:

It's it's extortion.

Andrea:

and, I think that that experience in me of, um, like when somebody does that to you, it, it can cause you to go one of two ways, right? It can cause you to go the way of,"oh my God, this is so horrible. I want to make sure I never do this to anybody." or it can cause you to go the way of,"Oh my God, this is the only way that I can be recognized and seen. And somebody listened to me," right? and Yeah, you have a very good reference for,

Courtney:

Yes. So one of our, I recently finished reading, um, Paolo Friere's Pedagogy of the Oppressed. I highly, highly recommend. It is, um, I would say like an intermediate academic type book. So it's not long and it's very repetitive. Um, but also you need some time because it's, it's translated from Portuguese, from academic Portuguese into academic English. So give yourself time to read it, but it is worth the read. Um, and one of the, One of the concepts that I find really, really connects with this idea, um, of what you just set up, these two paths, when you experience when a, when a white bodied person, especially of an intersecting identity, which is All white body people have an intersecting identity, but this particular since situation of a woman having her ideas co opted, extorted, um, in a corporate setting, for instance, um, they, we are dealing with what Friere calls the, the immersed or submerged identity versus the emerged identity and it's immersed or submerged identity is when an individual sees themselves as part of the system as part of the reality that they are built, they're experiencing, and therefore they can't see the systems in the reality. Right. You can't see it clearly because it's a part of who you are. There's an over identification with your experiences being, this is the way things are, this is how it is because this is how I'm experiencing it.

Andrea:

Okay.

Courtney:

Emerged identity is someone who has been able to make themselves the subject and the reality the object. So they're able to see that this is how someone can even consider being in a situation like the one that Andrew just described and choosing not to see that situation continue through them.

Andrea:

Yeah,

Courtney:

Does this make sense? So you're like, this was fucked This shouldn't to anyone. It stops with me. with me. That is someone who has an emerged identity. They're able to see that what happened to them didn't happen to them because they are who they are and things are what they are. It's always been this way. That's how it's going to be. It's it should be, et cetera. Um, I like to think of, uh, you know, this idea of I'm just doing my job. You hear that a lot in from. You

Andrea:

or this is just business.

Courtney:

this is just business. This is

Andrea:

That phrase. Ooh,

Courtney:

yeah, this is just business. Boys will be boys. I think is another way of saying it, or, um,

Andrea:

think what's problematic with the business one though, particularly is that it's disguised, right?

Courtney:

oh yeah, yeah,

Andrea:

it's just business. It's like, Hmm, are you trying to say you're not a human being because that

Courtney:

this is it, that's it, or it's just politics, this is just politics, or, yeah, like, Um, family business. You know, nobody talks about family business. This is just, you know, any type of thing that kind of buys into secrecy, buys into status quo, buys in, but not just status quo. It's about the, the refusal to name it as anything besides just reality."It's just is. is just life. This is how life works." Um, it's not. it's not, it's not, how life works.

Andrea:

And what's interesting is this is why I love Human Design so much because if you're following strategy and authority, it is going to smack you right up against those things.

Courtney:

Exactly. It is.

Andrea:

And the purpose, It's going to create some struggle Again, Struggling is human. Um, but the purpose of that is for you to be able to separate yourself is, and it's going to be painful to separate yourself, right? There's going to be. grief. There's going to be, you know, Financial challenges. There's going to be any number of, um, issues that come up as you get bumped against this, but once you have your autonomy, once you can come from that separated space, then you can have your agency back. So one of the things that one of the episodes that we've been wanting to record is on agency. This one was really required first, because if you have no capacity for discomfort, you cannot take your agency back. And if you are over functioning in discomfort, you also cannot own your agency. So this is a vital, um, this is a vital conversation for being able to decondition and, um, being able to get out of Not-Self and be more in true self.

Courtney:

Yeah. Understand the, the, the purpose of Not-Self, which is to, which is like the flare that goes up in the air and explodes when you are, when outer authority has, is in conflict with your agency, with your inner authority. Like you cannot. You are not even conscious to your agency with a submerged identity. When you're functioning, when you are attempting to function in Not Self.You have given away, you are not conscious of that. You have given that away. And the whole point of Human Designer, one of the biggest points is for you to reclaim that agency by. Reclaiming your identity, you know, like to emerging from Not-Self world, which is what we live in. Not-Self society, you know, overly with an over reliance on outer authority and reclaiming your autonomous unique self from that and reclaiming your agency.

Andrea:

Yeah. Your differentiation. 100%. 100%. So good.

Courtney:

We told you, we told you it was going to be a good

Andrea:

it

Courtney:

one!

Andrea:

And it was.

Courtney:

and it was So So good!

Andrea:

Thank you again for those that. Are here listening and we can't wait to hear your questions about this because this is is hot on all of our minds.

Courtney:

It is. It is. So, um, We cannot wait for you to come back. We can't wait for the next episode, which I'm pretty sure will be agency, but you know what? You never know because we're flying by strategy and authority that's how we roll around here

Andrea:

the only way to go. All right. Well, till next time.

Courtney:

until next time. Bye y'all.

Courtney Napier:

Thank you so much for tuning into HD and Liberation podcast. We hope you've gained valuable insights into human design and its role in building a life of peace, success, satisfaction, and wonder. If you've enjoyed this episode, please show your support by liking, following, and sharing our podcast. on YouTube, or your favorite podcast platform. Your engagement helps us reach more people who can benefit from this wisdom. For exclusive content and to join our thriving community, consider becoming a Patreon member. Your support allows us to continue exploring the depths of human design and its potential for life and community transformation. Stay tuned for more fun, thoughtful, and impacting discussions. Together, we're unlocking the path to a more liberated and authentic life. Thank you for being a part of HD and Liberation Podcast.

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Andrea Ward Berg

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Courtney Napier

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